Gardener Eugene Catalin

Hello ForumMembers and owners,/ Hola MiembrosForum y propietarios,
yesterday at the committee-meeting the President informed me that she is about to cancel the contract with our gardener.
I told her that I disagree to this action as I see that he is doing a good job!!! She claimed, that she can´t work with him any more as he is not doing what she wants. I asked her to put me in charge of the situation, to sort this out and that I create with Eugene a working plan etc. She told me that for personal reasons she can´t stand him any more and as a president she has the power to kick him out.

Ayer en la reunion del comite, la Presidenta me informo que esta en el punto de echar el jardinero. Yo le he dicho que no estoy de acuerdo con esa accion porque veo que el hace un muy buen trabajo!!! Ella insistio y dijo que no puede trabajar con el mas porque el no hace que quiere ella. Yo le pedi el encargo de esta situacion para aclarar todo esto y que quiero crear junto con Eugen un plan de trabajo diario, etc. Ella me contesto que es mas una cosa personal y que no lo soporta mas y que tiene el poder de echarlo como presidenta, de todas formas.

Today, 30.10.2010 I received a copy of a burofax regarding that cancellation sent to Eugene. It was signed by the president. But the way it was written, implies that the whole committee agrees to this personal motivated action. I clearly want to point out that I never agreed to this step and that I would never sign a paper wich is not representing my opinion.
This also makes very clear that we have to find a way to CUT the power of the president, who ever that is or will be in the future. Why do we have a committee if in the end the president can do whatever she wants to do??
We have to find a way, that for the future the committe gets more power to be able to control what the president does or buys.
I hope that the representative of "La Fnca" will fullfill the obligations of the contract with Eugene!!! He has a merchandiser contract, not an employee contract!

Hoy, 30.10.2010 he recibido una copia de un BUROFAX respeto al cese del contrato de Eugen. Estaba firmado por la presidenta. Pero la manera en que se escribio dice que todos los miembros del comite han firmado un acuerdo con esa accion. Quiero evidenciar claramente que yo nunca estuve de acuerdo con esto y nunca firmare un documento que no representa mi opinion.
Esto muestra claramente que tenemos que buscar una manera de "CORTAR" el poder del presidente, indiferentemente de quien sea en el futuro. ¿¿¿Para que tenemos un comite si al fin y al cabo la presidenta hace lo que le da la gana???
Tenemos que buscar una forma de dar mas poder al comite para poder tener un control de todo lo que hace o compra el/la presidente/a.
Espero que el nuevo representante de La Finca vaya a cumplir las obligaciones del contrato con Eugen!!! El tiene un contrato mercantil, no de empleo!

SHe, the president, is missusing her "power" !!! It is her personal revange and we have to pay for it, because Eugen is a "company" for us not an employment, and who was not paying was La Finca (presidenta) and not giving the 30 days to resign! On top she is not even clever! But....for the court case it will not be her who will have to pay, but again us:the fools, (or as she say "los tontos")...Why do we keep our mouth and eyes closed???She is playing with our money!!!! Neighter LA FINCA IS NOT HER OWN PROPERTY nor OUR MONEY!!!!

Ella, la presidenta, esta en maluso de su "poder"!!! Es una "revange" personal y nosotros tenemos que pagar por eso, porque Eugen es una "compania" para nosotros no un empleado, y la FINCA (la presidenta) no pago su servicio y no le ha dado los 30 dias de anticipacion para el cese del contrato! Ensima, ni es lista! Pero...para el juzgado no ella va a pagar los costes, pero, lo pagamos de nuevo, nosotros "los tontos" como dice ella....Porque no hablamos una vez y ceramos los ojos??? Se esta jugando con nuestro dinero!!!! LA FINCA NO ES SU PROPIEDAD y NI EL DINERO!!!!

Hi everyone it appears the president just does as she pleases without consultation with anyone.
We would like to know what is laid down in the constitutiion as to what the presidents role and tasks are and what authority she/he has with reference to the complex and likewise what the job specification is for the administrators.
Until we all know what the presidents and administrators roles and authority are the president is going to continue to do just a she wants and continue to make unilateral descisions
Ron & Vera

To me, there appears to be 3 main issues.
Firstly, was Sandra within her powers to sack Eugene? If she was and we are unhappy with it then we need to change the rules to prevent such things happening again. If she wasn't then we need to either get it approved correctly or get the decison overturned.
Secondly, were the reasons for sacking Eugene justifiable?
Thirdly, what are the ramifications of sacking Eugene? Are any penalties to be paid? Is there a possibilty of court action? Do the savings to be made from employing somebody else outweigh any costs associated with sacking Eugene? Does the person who is to replace Eugene have the necessary experience?
I think that it would be good to detail on the forum the exact text of the Burofax that was issued.
Was the Administrator in agreement with the decision or did Sandra just issue the Burofax on her own? If the Administrator was in agreement does this put a question mark over their commitment to the community as opposed to the President?
Regards
David

Hello David and Ron and all other members who are reading this!

I try to public the copy of the Burofax (the gardener agreed to be public as he is working for us and not the president) which I have in my hand as a copy but I can assure it is based on lies! It is signed as comitee but there is no other signiture just the presidenta´s, and on top no one agreed to this! Unfortunately it will be a judge case as Eugen is selfemployed and the "LA Finca" kicked him out with no justifiable reasons, lies and not complete the terms of contract he has with the Community. He has to go Tuesday morning to the court (which in this case is urgent and will be quick) has to pay his month of work, his extra duties, his 30 days of anticipation, what brings it up to 5000 euros! Who will pay: us! and she doesn´t care! On top there are other issues involved, like as he is a profesional he made good savings on water, electricity and pool cleaning/repair products! The good in this now, is that he is not affraid anymore to be kicked out (as he already is) and he could come as a testimony to testify all the robery what the President did: like using the comunity to pay starting her little light in her oven to the pain on her walls! She was sending him in his working hours and afternoon after his hours to make her own shopping, or buying "certain" things which the next day dissapered from the shelves of the gardeners office, knowing that no one else has keys, exept for her! When she was asked where are they she replied: "Don´t you want to be blame for them missing, it is YOUR office!" in other words a psicho game where he couldn´t do or say anything because he was "scared" to be kicked out! I guess we should "take advantage" of this and ask him to come to testify, as he is the only one person who knows many details about missusing the "power" . We have to make it public! The new guy (poor him) it is a very week and I have real doubts what he could do: he has no clue about electricity issues, fixing things, painting, repairs, he is young and has too much fear to say no when he will be asked to do personal things for the presidenta. He suposedly should get 1500 euros bruto and not 1800 as Eugen had,but imagine beside that to pay everytime a maintanance guy for the rest he can´t do.
Another example: As well as the "insect killer company" had to desinfect the presidenta house if they wanted to have their services considered for the next years! ....so much to say and to public it! Than invoices for gas, telephone, houskeeping stuff, etc etc etc...no one could control her, but all these are aproved by the administrator! So....I have so many doubts which soon will be clearified! I hate knowing someone is stealing my (our) hard worked money! If we can proof all this, is there any chance to make her pay back the comunity all the missused founds (not want to say robed)??? Could we ask back Eugen to continue to do his good job?

Hi further to this matter and Ariana's report if this information is correct and community funds including the gardeners time is being used for the presidents own personal use this is fraud in any country of the world and we as a community should take whatever action is neccessary to rectify this matter.
The first stage should be to bring the president before a meeting of the commitee to try and resolve this internally possibly by getting the president to repay to the community all the funds she has allegadlly missapropriated and prohibit her from anything to do with the running of the community in the future. If this cannot be achieved voluntary and we are sure we can prove these allegations we as a community should pursue the matter through whatever legal action is required to finalise this matter.
This would achieve two things
1: It would put the community on a much better footing now and in the future.

2: It would also give the community recourse against the president for whatever is the result of the case Eugene is bringing aganst the community.

Lets hope we can resolve this mater quickly
Ron & Vera C103

Hi everyone

These allegations about our President are very disturbing. As a community we must act together but FIRST all these allegations have got to be PROVED. I trust that Eugene has given his assurance that he will STAND UP and repeat the allegations in public. In the meantime perhaps it would be best to have another EGM and have a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the President asking her to stand down until the AGM in February and all these problems are sorted out. The vice president could carry out all of the duties until then.

I agree with all you, and we hope that common sense would be present in the presidenta and she would come forward humbled and resigned. If not we must act legally, and we have enough testimonies and documents what prooves all commented allegations. So sad and so unpleasant situation, beyond the Titles, we are neighbours and some act against ourselves, distroying our own "kingdom" .... Yes, but if we stop this now, recovering the "unnecesary costs" and take legal actions, than in the future no other president would dare to play games with our funds and resources!
We never complained against the presidenta neighter as a neighbour nor as a person for all the gossip she spread around, thinking that is childish and makes no sense to listen to these devicive atitude, but now things got tooooooo far away and toooooo serious!

After reading all the posts,we would like to add that we totally agree with all the comments.
All the power that this President has,is being misused,and this latest stunt is last straw for us.
We need a president that we can trust to run the complex effeciently,economically and make La Finca a nice place to live.

If it is possible the vice president should take over,until an EGM can be held.

Do we need an EGM to progress with a vote of "no confidence" in the current President and get the Vice President to act as President until the next AGM? What action do we need to take to achieve our aim? Could one of us as owners not formally approach the President via the Administrator with the accusations that have been made and asking the President to answer the accusations?

I am appalled with the accusations,that anyone would or could behave in such a manner to their fellow neighbours,but not surprised, that OUR presidenta is behaving in this manner, Please Please can we ride yourselves, of this wicket person without delay, like you all, I found Eugene to be helpful and pleasant, and always did a good job, whatever he tackled, you have my vote to remove Sandra NOW.

Just a thought - has Eugene actually been dismissed i.e. did Sandra have the authority to do this. Can the Committee reinstate him and would he want to return?

http://www.porticolegal.com/foro/propiedad+horizontal/660336/copia+de+documentos+a+vecinos

please check this if you have time/ por favor lee esto si tienen tiempo

For Lorna:
Yes, he was dismissed and Sandra did it by a Burofax, where she signes but in the name of all members (when in fact they never agreed)

Thanks Adriana - the key question here is whether Sandra had the legal authority to do this - and if she did does the Committee have the legal right to overturn it? Does anyone know the answer?

Best Regards

Lorna

Got to be honest, i did not know what it was, looked it up and it's registered letter,
Nice way to be dismissed.

Just to bring you all up to date. On 9th November, Eugen issued a "Denuncia" against Jose and Sandra. This was against them individually and was not against the community. The Denuncia has been issued on the basis that Eugen was sacked without just cause without the 30 days notice required under his contract, Eugen still has tools in La Finca that the President will not allow him to collect and salary for October is still owed. Eugen provided to the court a copy of a note that he gave to the Administrator on 26th October detailing his concerns about the President. I understand that the court case is scheduled for 14th December 2010. It will be interesting to see whether the President can present any evidence to support her immediate sacking of Eugen. To date, this has not been evident. If the case is proven then where will the funds come from? I suspect out of the community bank account and not the President's own account. This would mean that we would have paid for both Eugen and his replacement. Not good use of our money.

Has the denuncia been brought against Sandra as an individual or as the president of the Community , similarly is the denuncia against Jose or the firm of administrators? I think this will determine whether the Community has to pay ???

Hello Lorna. I've just had another look at the Denuncia and I must admit that it isn't totally clear to me whether the Denuncia is against Sandra and Jose individually or as President and Administrator of La Finca. The Denuncia states that the name of the persons against whom the Denuncia is given is "Sandra Amelia Lopez Villalobo (President of the community) and Jose Antonio Jimenez Navarro (Adminstrator with Brokers y Analistas". The address given for Sandra is her apartment and the address for Jose is his offie.

If the Denuncia is against them personally then is it your view that, if Eugen wins,then Sandra and Jose will have to pay the money out of their own funds? What if they take the money out of community funds subsequently? Do we have any recourse against Sandra and Jose under spanish law?

Hi David

From what you've seen it looks like it is against Sandra in her capacity as President and Jose as Administrator. If they were acting in accordance with the powers vested in them in those roles then I assume the community would be liable. Furthermore they both have access to the bank account and it would be within their power to draw money from that account to pay the claim. If they acted outside those powers then possibly the community would not be liable, however I assume this would need to be proven which would incur legal fees etc. Also I assume Eugene will need to prove his case too? It all comes down to weighing up how much it will cost to settle Eugene's claim and how much it would cost to go through the legal processes etc. Sometimes it isn't worth it and is just better to settle and then start over.

In England you could prevent either of them taking the monies out of the account by removing them as signatories but I think it is different in Spain? If Sandra is removed as president before Eugene's claim comes to court and her authority to access the bank account is removed (in England this would have to be done at the bank) then does she have a claim against the community if she can prove (and again I assume she would have to prove this) that she acted within the powers vested in her).

Is there anyone in the Community who has some knowledge of spanish law and could provide us with their view?

Whatever the result, it is clear to me, like yourself and many others, that a new Committee needs to be formed with much tighter control over the power of individuals to ensure that this situation cannot arise again in the future. It is a very sad situation but we need to get things settled and build up the community spirit and trust once again

Dear Lorna and David and all reading neighbours,

the sad thing is also that Sandra spends our money in a "legal" way, apparently: she has the right to buy, to contract or to cancel contract as she pleases, because this is the law here (and not too difficult to see the results of no control) and the law says she needs a secretary, who in this case is Jose who also is the administrator, so if the two agrees than "apparently" all is legal! That does not mean it is also correct or moral, ethical, but legal: for example spending for expensive things we do not need here in La Finca, or spending on phone bills high amount, or paying penalties for " considering" of not fullfiling the contracts. or selling on a higher price certain things what should be given to owner for free or at least for the same buying price, as La Finca is not an open/flee market. I wish you Lorna, could have come to the adminsitrator to check with us the accounting and you would see personally how many "apparently" legal things are done! When do you come back Lorna?

The court case of Eugen is dated for 14th of December, and if there would be common sense we would have the EGM before this date, to be sure we can come to an agreement with the gardener, paying what we must pay and he could withdraw his "denuncia"...but as you can see this is also " legal " in Sandra´s eyes, to go to court to all our employees and loose the case and pay, as it is not she who must pay it, but us! Unfortunately it is legal and we can only claim back money after we denounced her, go through a long trial, `prove (whcich will not be difficult) that she was wrong, and only if the judge considers missuse of power and management that she mus pay.
Eugen still has the keys because no one wants to take them from him! He went to the Adm., he had appointment with the committee but the members canceled it, than he asked for another one but it wasn´t given to him! All he wants to have testimonials that he gave the keys and can get back his own tools, and sooner or later he could be accused for robbery as he was already acused for cutting off electricity, or water etc....which we all know it is not true! He was called in to Guardia Civil to present himself with the keys, but even the policeman over there could not take the keys from him as the denuncia was fals agaisnt him.

Another "legal" thing is that she can pay what ever she wants or to buy and for this she has a petty cash box in her house! It is not correct (who can control that?) but it is "apparently" legal!

It is not not correct but it is "apparently" legal to call those who signed to call an EGM to cancel their signatures and tell them not true stories.

If there is nothing to hide or it is all ok as Sandra and the Administrator tell everyone, involving even the lawyer of the Communitty as a "prove" that is all correct but "only we" make up stories, than I do not see any unconvenient to have an open Communitty talk in a EGM where we can receive answers to our questions and that´s it, isn´t it?